She's broken up with me twice yet we're still fucking?

[intrigued101]

Both 25 years old. A timeline for background:

June 2011 - January 2012 - Met, dated, monogamous fuck buddies, then girlfriend and boyfriend.
2nd January - Break up 1 - She has a 'spazz out'. After one week we are back together as boyfriend and girlfriend.
10th February - Break up 2 - I initiate no contact for 6 weeks.
17th March - First meet up since break. Have sex.
18th - 27th March - Sleeping together 5 nights a week. I say 'I love you'. She tells me the same 4 days later.
April - We are both away travelling. Find ways to see each other twice and have sex both times.
Now - Got back from a trip and see her for breakfast, a massage and blow jobs (she went on her period the night before). I will see her whenever I am in town (I now live outside and am travelling lots throughout the year).

It doesn't fit with other relationship break downs posted on this forum. Most say the sex dried up or she met someone else, or she was bored, or cheated. Why does this girl break things off if she still wants me in her life? Her attraction is high (we fuck like crazy) and she isn't having sex with anyone else (we are open about all encounters etc) but she doesn't want a relationship.

The other day her friends from her home country called her on Skype. She introduces me and kisses me in front of them. It caught me off guard. Why do that if we are just fuck buddies? She also asked me to help her redo her room. Again not fuck buddy behaviour.

I want her as my girlfriend yet she doesn't seem to know what she wants. She still can't give me a clear reason for the breakup. She tried for days to write me a letter but she said it just didn't make any sense.

I'm close to giving her an ultimatum a. she is my girlfriend or b. we say goodbye and I cut all contact. However I am not 100% comfortable with applying this kind of pressure. Maybe I'm just scared of cutting her out of my life. It's like whatever weird thing we have now is better than not having her at all. Damm this love sickness.

[Sobot]

Listen to your gut. There's a good reason why you don't feel comfortable giving her an ultimatum and that's because it's a dumb idea. You have to ask yourself how you'd feel if she chose to walk away, because if you give her an ultimatum that becomes a very real possibility and it's not what you want to achieve so why take that route. It's just counter-intuitive.

Remember the only person's actions you can control are your own. The moment you try to control another person's actions, through a mechanism such as an ultimatum, is the moment a person decides to prove to you just how not in control of them you actually are, by doing whatever it is you didn't want them to do.

People who issue ultimatums always appear to be coming from a position of weakness (because they are). She will pick up on that and demonstrate to you just how weak your position is. As would anyone.

Also why defer the choice and the outcome of your relationship (and not to mention the outcome of your life), to her. This again is a position of weakness. It should be your choice whether to call it quits or stick it out. Take ownership of that choice and be responsible for the outcome.

[intrigued101]

Originally Posted by Sobot

Listen to your gut. There's a good reason why you don't feel comfortable giving her an ultimatum and that's because it's a dumb idea. You have to ask yourself how you'd feel if she chose to walk away, because if you give her an ultimatum that becomes a very real possibility and it's not what you want to achieve so why take that route. It's just counter-intuitive.

Yeah you're right. You can't coerce someone into a relationship. It should be a place that you reach together. Thanks for pointing this out.

Originally Posted by Sobot

Remember the only person's actions you can control are your own. The moment you try to control another person's actions, through a mechanism such as an ultimatum, is the moment a person decides to prove to you just how not in control of them you actually are, by doing whatever it is you didn't want them to do.

Yep, I haven't put any pressure on over the past month or so. I'm just going with the flow. I realised rationalising or selling the benefits of 'US' isn't going to change her mind. What's odd is she seems to be be acting a little more 'girlfriendy' and her shit tests have increased since turning into fuck buddies. She's even thinking of coming out of town to meet some of my friends on the weekend.

Originally Posted by Sobot

Also why defer the choice and the outcome of your relationship (and not to mention the outcome of your life), to her. This again is a position of weakness.

I don't see how you can always be in control. There are two people in a 'relationship'. How is it ever going to be possible to always control the outcome?

Also if I just did exactly as I wanted I'm pretty sure I would be indefinitely single. There is some level of compromise and sacrifice which, necessarily, involves loosing a little control.

Originally Posted by Sobot

It should be your choice whether to call it quits or stick it out. Take ownership of that choice and be responsible for the outcome.

I guess I am sticking for the moment. I wouldn't go into a relationship with another girl right now as it doesn't fit with my lifestyle and plans over the coming months. However the casual nature of what we have suits me in many ways does. It's not ideal. My ideal would be a proper relationship. But I'm being pragmatic at the moment.

[Sobot]

Originally Posted by intrigued101

I don't see how you can always be in control. There are two people in a 'relationship'. How is it ever going to be possible to always control the outcome?

Also if I just did exactly as I wanted I'm pretty sure I would be indefinitely single. There is some level of compromise and sacrifice which, necessarily, involves loosing a little control.

You've misunderstood. Of course you can't control the relationship, but right now you have a problem with the relationship and you were considering defering your choice, of what to do about it, to her.

There is no compromise, only choice. You either choose to accept her faults/the faults with your relationship or you don't. There's no rule in the laws of physics that says you have to accept her flakey bullshit, you choose to accept it.

[MrStinky]

Originally Posted by Sobot

Remember the only person's actions you can control are your own. The moment you try to control another person's actions, through a mechanism such as an ultimatum, is the moment a person decides to prove to you just how not in control of them you actually are, by doing whatever it is you didn't want them to do

Gold advice

[Saint Colbert]

You gave the other guy in the other thread really good advice and said:

"Have her do things for you and get her invested". Are you doing that?

Also, my woman keeps breaking up with me and is all confused and irrational. The more I dominate and cause her to purge with temper tantrums etc, the more sane she becomes. She seems to like the drama of arguing and getting set straight by me. It's always her who is doing the growing up as well. She is a very successful woman, but obviously never has had a powerful man in her life. I am learning what that is like just by not putting up with her shit.

Other question. Are you leading her at all? Are you doing events together where you are the boss? Besides sex? Like walking, running, martial arts, music etc.

Do you tease her? Argue with her? Make fun of her?

I think the girls we are dating are a bit similar. Unresolved father issues, so you have to play that role till they graduate. Push her buttons, lead her, argue with her, set her straight and she will cry, but respect you. You don't have anything to lose. You were going to 'cut her out' anyway. Might as well give it a try. I only do it, because it's the last resort, kills the boredom and creates drama that seems to be memorable and moves us on.

[intrigued101]

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

Also, my woman keeps breaking up with me and is all confused and irrational. The more I dominate and cause her to purge with temper tantrums etc, the more sane she becomes. She seems to like the drama of arguing and getting set straight by me. It's always her who is doing the growing up as well. She is a very successful woman, but obviously never has had a powerful man in her life. I am learning what that is like just by not putting up with her shit.

I don't want a woman in my life who is so undecided. She likes the drama for sure. But I don't. I take risks and have stresses in my business life and take part in adrenalin inducing adventure sports. When out with my friends and girlfriend I want to chill. I don't want to start arguments and set her straight. Not after a week of cutting business deals.

Here is what I learnt from the breakup. She gave a whole host of fairly irrational reasons. I came back at her with pure logic (male perspective). This is next to useless when dealing with an emotional woman. What I should of done is fought emotion with emotion. She wanted to meet up just one week after the second breakup. That blew my mind! As a man if I break up with a woman, that's that. I stick with my decision and she is not coming back into my life. For a woman that seems not to be the case. When she did the breakup she was affected by her emotions at the time which in both instances were shifted by external sources (her sister breaking up with boyfriend first time, her best girl friend breaking up with her boyfriend the second). It felt right to her at the time but a few days or a week later she felt differently. I didn't appreciate this aspect of female decision making and suffered because of it.

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

Other question. Are you leading her at all? Are you doing events together where you are the boss? Besides sex? Like walking, running, martial arts, music etc.

This has been the obstacle. Just before we broke up the second time I was getting fucked off and about to call her on always declining to come out with me and my friends. Maybe she has issues with male authority. She is so submissive in the bedroom and when we are one on one she loves being led e.g. I take her out, tell her what to wear and she has no idea what we are doing, I completely plan the day. But her issues has always been entering my world and seeing my friends and family. It's a fear to get close to me. What causes this is still unknown (sexual abuse, father issues, feminism, fear of failure, fear of getting hurt, cowardice, fear of something working, visa issues).

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

Do you tease her? Argue with her? Make fun of her?

Tease - yes. Make fun of her - yes. Argue - no. I don't argue with anyone. I will disagree with her and try to see things from her point of view but I don't argue. I don't argue with anyone (business, friends) as it doesn't seem a productive way to communicate. Maybe she missed this drama though. She said she found it odd how we never argued yet she had huge arguments with previous lovers and friends. It's not my style and she needs to deal with that.

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

I think the girls we are dating are a bit similar. Unresolved father issues, so you have to play that role till they graduate. Push her buttons, lead her, argue with her, set her straight and she will cry, but respect you. You don't have anything to lose. You were going to 'cut her out' anyway. Might as well give it a try. I only do it, because it's the last resort, kills the boredom and creates drama that seems to be memorable and moves us on.

Two weeks ago I said goodbye to this girl. I didn't use an ultimatum (thanks for advice here) I simply tired of what we had and told her I was calling it off. I think I shocked her when turning my back on her no-strings attached sex arrangement. Turns out not all men think exclusively with their dick. I hope she learns and grows from this experience.

[Saint Colbert]

Bummer. I was really hoping you would argue with her, just for kicks to see what that would be like. Stir up the emotions and create some lasting and memorable drama. Something she could talk to her girlfriends about and vent to someone over. Something to cry about and blame on your manhood.

I also would have found it cool, if indeed you had thought exclusively with your dick. The arguing, the dickishness and the pain of it all, would have made her feel alive and like a woman. Even if it hurt.

My last woman taught me a lot of lessons. First I listened and was compassionate, then I reasoned with her, then I argued with her, then I began ripping into her. The more I escalated over the months the more it worked for her and the more respect she gave me.

You sound like a good person with values. I used to be that way too. Problem is that douchebags have boat loads of girls and I have been excluded and single for years. The more I douche it up, the better I do.

If you ever return to this thread I am just curious. Do you do any sort of activity with your women, where you fight/compete/argue? Anything emotional where they can vent their fantasies and darkness?

I find dancing and martial arts to really help. I personally believe that woman want and need to be dominated in a safe environment. If they don't get that, they become irrational basket cases that create unsolvable problems.

I also found that cultural events had a powerful harmonizing influence on my woman. It's all about finding those magic formulas. People throughout history figured it all out.

Douche it up.

[intrigued101]

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

Bummer. I was really hoping you would argue with her, just for kicks to see what that would be like. Stir up the emotions and create some lasting and memorable drama. Something she could talk to her girlfriends about and vent to someone over. Something to cry about and blame on your manhood.

She's one of my very closest friends. Her best girlfriend is also a good friend of mine. They are two wicked ladies. Why would I want to create drama? I want them to have the best lives possible...

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

I also would have found it cool, if indeed you had thought exclusively with your dick. The arguing, the dickishness and the pain of it all, would have made her feel alive and like a woman. Even if it hurt.

I did but eventually I realised it wasn't making me happy so I walked away.

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

My last woman taught me a lot of lessons. First I listened and was compassionate, then I reasoned with her, then I argued with her, then I began ripping into her. The more I escalated over the months the more it worked for her and the more respect she gave me.

You sound like a good person with values. I used to be that way too. Problem is that douchebags have boat loads of girls and I have been excluded and single for years. The more I douche it up, the better I do.

I think a good person with values is alpha. You don't need to be a douche to get girls, although yes I admit the bad boy angle does build a lot of attraction. It's being a nice guy, read pushover / no attraction that's the problem. Getting a girl has not been my problem over the past 1.5 years.

I perhaps am being idealistic in my value-based approach. I've acted in her best interest out of love for her. Time will tell. We're are still in each other's lives, the relationship has grown and deepened, and we are closer than ever.

Originally Posted by Saint Colbert

If you ever return to this thread I am just curious. Do you do any sort of activity with your women, where you fight/compete/argue? Anything emotional where they can vent their fantasies and darkness?

I find dancing and martial arts to really help. I personally believe that woman want and need to be dominated in a safe environment. If they don't get that, they become irrational basket cases that create unsolvable problems.

Conversations, yes. Sex, yes (dominated in a safe environment). Dancing, yes. Activities, not so much.